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[hotel21]

I have resisted the temptation to go down the chapter and verse Braveheart route of Highland clearances, English lords being 'given' lands and estates in Scotland (and Wales and Ireland) but had to mention them, just to clear my throat, as it were....   

Oh - and the British National Anthem with the now deleted verse
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.

This is now hotly disputed to never have been but, two hundred and something years later, history can be masaged to suit every and any viewpoint.   

As to The UK of GB & NI, I would counter argue the monies part of the views so far quoted by saying the revenues from the English non Scottish landowners, taxation on residents, whisky, the remains of the fishing industry as well as the mineral rights available under the waters off the Scottish coast more than equals the fiscal monies that the Scottish Parliament has to disperse, at their discretion, within the country.

Thats where the prescription thing comes from, but that is to the detriment of several other areas within Scotland.  And its the same in Wales.

Scottish MP's sitting at Westminster?  Its the UK so, why not?  There are Welsh MP's as well as NI MP's sitting there to govern the UK?  That there are also MSP's in Scotland for the additional clown show of Holyrood, well, the same is available in Wales and NI for their Parliaments and Assemblies.

I accept that there is no lower 'house' than the Commons for Engerland but - should that not be a situation that England should be redressing by having a house that governs themselves, rather than continually banging on about the other 3 constituent parts of the UK having something that they dont have?

Personally, I am a proud Scot and it always gets my hackles up when the hard of thinking in the remainder of the UK feel that we (Scotland) are getting a free ride on the back of the hard working, over stretched, taxed to the hilt Englishman/woman.  We pay our dues up here too!  And we were the gunieapigs for the Community charge/Poll tax that an English British government subsequently foisted upon the whole of the UK!

And lets not get into the realms of those who support the English monarchy, the English military, the English football team, the English rugby team, the English athletes etc etc etc or indeed, the athletes who are Welsh, Irish or Scots when losing but who suddenly become 'British' when they win, according to Aunty Beeb and any and all the others in a broadcasting industry in the UK based in - England.

I've said too much and will attempt to leave it there but, in closing, I am as British as any other born here, be that in any of the 4 countries making the whole.  Without any one of the four, the whole will be one helluva lot the worse off....

 

[SJKOO01]

I'll keep it short and sweet...

I hate the fact that we're viewed as a 'Great' or 'United' country, we're far from it.  Amazing that we're in the 21st Century and it would seem we're becoming more segregated than we were at the beginning of the 20th Century on a global level, never mind just being an island!"

[albitz]

Sorry Bruce,but your wrong.A liitle research will show that Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland recieve a hell of a lot more from the treasury than they contribute to it.As you know Im not English,so no axe to grind. As said,I also believe in the Union,but not under present unfair unjust arrangements. Tbh,it makes me sad to say so,but I would rather see the breakup of the union than have it carry on as it is at present.
Hopefully Im objective rather than hard of thinking.

[hotel21]

Does that point of reference of yours include oil revenue from within Scots waters...... 

[feeutfo]

Quick, where's that popcorn smiley?

[Entwood]

Sorry Bruce,but your wrong.A liitle research will show that Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland recieve a hell of a lot more from the treasury than they contribute to it.As you know Im not English,so no axe to grind. As said,I also believe in the Union,but not under present unfair unjust arrangements. Tbh,it makes me sad to say so,but I would rather see the breakup of the union than have it carry on as it is at present.
Hopefully Im objective rather than hard of thinking.

Statistics can be used to prove anything  ... if you know what you are doing.  As two simple examples.

1) If Scottish Expenditure is compared to the English expenditure on a "surface area" or "size" criterea then Scotland is very badly served in comparison to England

2) If Scottish Expenditure is compared to the English expenditure on a "population" or "number" criterea then Scotland is very well served in comparison to England

Up to your point of view which statistic you use ... and there are another few million variations on the theme that can be used to prove any point you wish to make ....

Never, ever, believe a statistician .....   

[hotel21]

Correct Entwood. 

Lies, damned lies, and statistics!!      

[albitz]

Dont think that territory has been established .....but as I understand it,the oil industries best years are behind it anyway,not that much left afaik.
However HM treasury info from Danny Alexander states that Scotlands administration spent £14 billion more than Scotland raised in taxation in 2009/10. Scotlands share of the National debt is around £65 billion (that doesnt include calculations for bailing out RBS & HBOS) and it has a smaller private sector than the UK average - ie, many of its joibs are govt. jobs,undoubtedly many of which exist to keep unemployment figures down, just like the rest of the UK.
On the bright side, Scotland (Edinburgh in particular) has quite a strong financial sector,which could help its longer term prospects,as long as those pesky socialists so prevelant north of th border arent allowed to wreck it through dogmatism.
The downside of that of course is that Scotland could be quite highly exposed to the worlds financial problems.
I try to be proud of where Im from too,but I also believe in  being realistic and fair minded about it,which is why I also dont believe in the Northern Ireland assembly, for example.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/speech_cst_010911.htm

[albitz]

Sorry Bruce,but your wrong.A liitle research will show that Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland recieve a hell of a lot more from the treasury than they contribute to it.As you know Im not English,so no axe to grind. As said,I also believe in the Union,but not under present unfair unjust arrangements. Tbh,it makes me sad to say so,but I would rather see the breakup of the union than have it carry on as it is at present.
Hopefully Im objective rather than hard of thinking.

Statistics can be used to prove anything  ... if you know what you are doing.  As two simple examples.

1) If Scottish Expenditure is compared to the English expenditure on a "surface area" or "size" criterea then Scotland is very badly served in comparison to England

2) If Scottish Expenditure is compared to the English expenditure on a "population" or "number" criterea then Scotland is very well served in comparison to England

Up to your point of view which statistic you use ... and there are another few million variations on the theme that can be used to prove any point you wish to make ....

Never, ever, believe a statistician .....   

The statistic which matters for the purpose of this conversation is how much tax revenue Scotland raises against how much it spends. £14 billion deficit according to HM treasury.

[albitz]

I would also like someone to try to explain to me how its fair/just/ reasonable that Scottish MP,s sit in Westminster and vote on issues such as university fees in England (and many other less obvious issues), when they have no possible consequences in their own constituencies as they operate under a different set of laws.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Dont think that territory has been established .....but as I understand it,the oil industries best years are behind it anyway,not that much left afaik.
However HM treasury info from Danny Alexander states that Scotlands administration spent £14 billion more than Scotland raised in taxation in 2009/10. Scotlands share of the National debt is around £65 billion (that doesnt include calculations for bailing out RBS & HBOS) and it has a smaller private sector than the UK average - ie, many of its joibs are govt. jobs,undoubtedly many of which exist to keep unemployment figures down, just like the rest of the UK.
On the bright side, Scotland (Edinburgh in particular) has quite a strong financial sector,which could help its longer term prospects,as long as those pesky socialists so prevelant north of th border arent allowed to wreck it through dogmatism.
The downside of that of course is that Scotland could be quite highly exposed to the worlds financial problems.
I try to be proud of where Im from too,but I also believe in  being realistic and fair minded about it,which is why I also dont believe in the Northern Ireland assembly, for example.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/speech_cst_010911.htm

An independant Scotland would apply to join the European Union and thus would be obliged to join the Euro...... and so would have to accept Merkozys financial transaction tax!!!   

[hotel21]

I would also like someone to try to explain to me how its fair/just/ reasonable that Scottish MP,s sit in Westminster and vote on issues such as university fees in England (and many other less obvious issues), when they have no possible consequences in their own constituencies as they operate under a different set of laws.

As said already, they sit in the UK Parliament.  That the Scots, Welsh and Irish have their own assemblies and members is a moot point.  What England needs is a similar setup so that MEP's (thats members of the English parliament, not Euro) sit in an English parliament which would preclude the assembled Celts....

[feeutfo]

Correct Entwood. 

Lies, damned lies, and statistics!!      

... And the Internet.

According to Clarkson.

[hotel21]

Dont think that territory has been established .....but as I understand it,the oil industries best years are behind it anyway,not that much left afaik.
However HM treasury info from Danny Alexander states that Scotlands administration spent £14 billion more than Scotland raised in taxation in 2009/10. Scotlands share of the National debt is around £65 billion (that doesnt include calculations for bailing out RBS & HBOS) and it has a smaller private sector than the UK average - ie, many of its joibs are govt. jobs,undoubtedly many of which exist to keep unemployment figures down, just like the rest of the UK.
On the bright side, Scotland (Edinburgh in particular) has quite a strong financial sector,which could help its longer term prospects,as long as those pesky socialists so prevelant north of th border arent allowed to wreck it through dogmatism.
The downside of that of course is that Scotland could be quite highly exposed to the worlds financial problems.
I try to be proud of where Im from too,but I also believe in  being realistic and fair minded about it,which is why I also dont believe in the Northern Ireland assembly, for example.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/speech_cst_010911.htm

The 'territory' was established long before Scotland had the (legal/Parliamentary privelage) to challenge said territorial boundaries.  Its within the UK legal remit, not Scotlands, hence not included in the fiscal returns.  For Scotland.... 

[Sir Tigger KC]

I would also like someone to try to explain to me how its fair/just/ reasonable that Scottish MP,s sit in Westminster and vote on issues such as university fees in England (and many other less obvious issues), when they have no possible consequences in their own constituencies as they operate under a different set of laws.

As said already, they sit in the UK Parliament.  That the Scots, Welsh and Irish have their own assemblies and members is a moot point.  What England needs is a similar setup so that MEP's (thats members of the English parliament, not Euro) sit in an English parliament which would preclude the assembled Celts....

The last thing England needs is to spend untold millions on another tier of government filled with no-marks!!