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[TheBoy]

The ATP stuff is cheap enough to be a service item.

And most Omegas will have had the wishbones changed by 120k miles.

If they've been replaced with genuine ones then the person who changed them had more money than sense as they were about £270 each. And on a car that's likely to only have a couple of years in it, why waste the money

They were £70 for ages, before going to a stupid price.

But the genuine ones are good enough to just replace the bushes - polys are a one time only cost (originally around £50, now a bit more) and the rears are around £10-£15 each. And the balljoints rarely need doing.  The genuine rear bushes tend to last 40-50k, even with the bridge launches I used to give them.

Hence, my advice always has been, and always will be to stick with genuine wishbones if that is what you have, and replace the front bushes with poly and rear bushes with genuine.  Never remove genuine wishbones for ATP junk, no matter how cheap they are, it's false economy.


All 5 of my own Omegas had genuine wishbones on, including those I bought with well over 100k on.  If any of them didn't, I think I would have got some old 2nd hand wishbones and replaced the bushes, that's how much better the longevity is on them compared to the shite ATP/Febi and so on....

Longevity is important when the single most expensive cost in touching the wishbones is the geometry adjustments afterwards.

[Doctor Gollum]

When I first needed them in 2009 they were already well over £250 each. That car only had two* wishbone replacements in 6 years/120k. And one of those was because I snapped one experimenting with poly rear bushes. And you know just what that car went through both before I bought it and in my ownership.

The first was to replace the worn out originals. These were Delphi ones that failed almost instantly. These were ultimately rebushed with poly bushes and were replaced with ATP sourced ones when they failed. The Delphi ones got rebuilt and were the ones I used for experimenting. When that arm snapped, they were both replaced with rebuilt ATP arms.

Fitted around 10 sets of ATP kits to various members cars over the years. The drop links were pretty short lived, but with the state of the roads they are a service item.

We'll have to agree to disagree re the ATP kits, but then that's been the case since they first became available 😉

[johnnydog]

When I first needed them in 2009 they were already well over £250 each. That car only had two* wishbone replacements in 6 years/120k. And one of those was because I snapped one experimenting with poly rear bushes. And you know just what that car went through both before I bought it and in my ownership.

The first was to replace the worn out originals. These were Delphi ones that failed almost instantly. These were ultimately rebushed with poly bushes and were replaced with ATP sourced ones when they failed. The Delphi ones got rebuilt and were the ones I used for experimenting. When that arm snapped, they were both replaced with rebuilt ATP arms.

Fitted around 10 sets of ATP kits to various members cars over the years. The drop links were pretty short lived, but with the state of the roads they are a service item.

We'll have to agree to disagree re the ATP kits, but then that's been the case since they first became available 😉

How on earth did you manage to 'snap' a wishbone experimemting with polybushes? I'm sure even aftermarket wishbones can take a certain amount of abuse purely to be deemed 'fit for purpose'. Were you possibly being a bit 'hamfisted' ?

[YZ250]

When I first needed them in 2009 they were already well over £250 each. That car only had two* wishbone replacements in 6 years/120k. And one of those was because I snapped one experimenting with poly rear bushes. And you know just what that car went through both before I bought it and in my ownership.

The first was to replace the worn out originals. These were Delphi ones that failed almost instantly. These were ultimately rebushed with poly bushes and were replaced with ATP sourced ones when they failed. The Delphi ones got rebuilt and were the ones I used for experimenting. When that arm snapped, they were both replaced with rebuilt ATP arms.

Fitted around 10 sets of ATP kits to various members cars over the years. The drop links were pretty short lived, but with the state of the roads they are a service item.

We'll have to agree to disagree re the ATP kits, but then that's been the case since they first became available 😉

How on earth did you manage to 'snap' a wishbone experimemting with polybushes? I'm sure even aftermarket wishbones can take a certain amount of abuse purely to be deemed 'fit for purpose'. Were you possibly being a bit 'hamfisted' ?

If I remember correctly Al was experimenting with the wishbone rear vertical bush. It over stressed it and eventually cracked so, as a trial he took one for the team. 

[STEMO]

When I first needed them in 2009 they were already well over £250 each. That car only had two* wishbone replacements in 6 years/120k. And one of those was because I snapped one experimenting with poly rear bushes. And you know just what that car went through both before I bought it and in my ownership.

The first was to replace the worn out originals. These were Delphi ones that failed almost instantly. These were ultimately rebushed with poly bushes and were replaced with ATP sourced ones when they failed. The Delphi ones got rebuilt and were the ones I used for experimenting. When that arm snapped, they were both replaced with rebuilt ATP arms.

Fitted around 10 sets of ATP kits to various members cars over the years. The drop links were pretty short lived, but with the state of the roads they are a service item.

We'll have to agree to disagree re the ATP kits, but then that's been the case since they first became available 😉

How on earth did you manage to 'snap' a wishbone experimemting with polybushes? I'm sure even aftermarket wishbones can take a certain amount of abuse purely to be deemed 'fit for purpose'. Were you possibly being a bit 'hamfisted' ?

It's a perfectly acceptable engineering technique, it's called testing to destruction. 

[YZ250]

When I first needed them in 2009 they were already well over £250 each. That car only had two* wishbone replacements in 6 years/120k. And one of those was because I snapped one experimenting with poly rear bushes. And you know just what that car went through both before I bought it and in my ownership.

The first was to replace the worn out originals. These were Delphi ones that failed almost instantly. These were ultimately rebushed with poly bushes and were replaced with ATP sourced ones when they failed. The Delphi ones got rebuilt and were the ones I used for experimenting. When that arm snapped, they were both replaced with rebuilt ATP arms.

Fitted around 10 sets of ATP kits to various members cars over the years. The drop links were pretty short lived, but with the state of the roads they are a service item.

We'll have to agree to disagree re the ATP kits, but then that's been the case since they first became available 😉

How on earth did you manage to 'snap' a wishbone experimemting with polybushes? I'm sure even aftermarket wishbones can take a certain amount of abuse purely to be deemed 'fit for purpose'. Were you possibly being a bit 'hamfisted' ?

It's a perfectly acceptable engineering technique, it's called testing to destruction. 

Al wasn’t the only one that it happened to either. Some of the guys on Autobahnstormers had trialed the wishbone front bush with poly’s successfully so experimented with a poly on the vertical bush. The vertical bush doesn’t have the flexibility of the front bush so when it ran out of travel, it flexed the wishbone, hence the stress cracks or snapping completely. Let’s be honest, if Al’s experiment had been successful we’d have all been replacing the vertical bush for a poly bush, like we did with the front bush. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Especially as the Sierra bush I was testing was an exact fit.

And the test wasn't exactly a failure, it lasted about 7k, and was regularly inspected because fatigue was a genuine concern. From memory the previous visual inspection was a few days before it snapped and there was no evidence of a stress failure at that point... Ultimately It snapped across the centre line of the vertical bush either side of the bush mounting ring It could have been reengineered to make the failure point stronger, but that would have potentially moved it to the ball joint mounting. At that point it became a quest of diminished returns and I started to move on from the Omega. At that point I had two and kept both for another 6 months of daily use.

The final bump that it failed on was a fast A road crest, and inspite of it, pulling up from 60+ was in a straight line with no other damage, again testament to the car. And a dose of luck.

Despite the Plod and being used as a taxi, that car took everything in it's stride, and it passed every council inspection* all the while having been maintained by me, so hamfisted is something of a slur especially as it had about 270k under it when I sold it.

*Likewise a fleet of Vectras I was responsible for.

[johnnydog]

I appreciate many have 'experimented' with poly bushes, although from a personal point of view, dispite owning several Omegas since 2004, and clocking up an approx. combined 140/150k in them in this period, I have only ever replaced the wishbones on one Omega, and that was purely due to corrosion of the wishbone itself rather than failure of the bushes (the car had previously lived in a coastal area so I presume the sea air had contributed to this). Admittedly, I used genuine GM wishbones as replacements, and I never saw the need to replace the original bushes with polyurethane, and still don't. I have tried poly bushes on some of my Triumphs, but always gone back to rubber. Fortunately I still have several pairs of new original GM wishbones available for any replacements, but at the rate I have had the need to change them since 2004, then fitting (in my opinion) unnecessary poly bushes as alternatives is not something I would consider as a necessary alternative.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Had an enjoyable 110 mile drive in the Omega this morning, which is something I rarely do these days.
Down that East London via the A12, and then back via the A12 / A120.
Averaged just over 27mpg, which isnt bad, and as the traffic was reasonably light, touched three figures on the speedo a couple of times *.
It reminded me again that it really is a lovely old thing to drive

* Obviously this involved a slight detour to a private road. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I appreciate many have 'experimented' with poly bushes, although from a personal point of view, dispite owning several Omegas since 2004, and clocking up an approx. combined 140/150k in them in this period, I have only ever replaced the wishbones on one Omega, and that was purely due to corrosion of the wishbone itself rather than failure of the bushes (the car had previously lived in a coastal area so I presume the sea air had contributed to this). Admittedly, I used genuine GM wishbones as replacements, and I never saw the need to replace the original bushes with polyurethane, and still don't. I have tried poly bushes on some of my Triumphs, but always gone back to rubber. Fortunately I still have several pairs of new original GM wishbones available for any replacements, but at the rate I have had the need to change them since 2004, then fitting (in my opinion) unnecessary poly bushes as alternatives is not something I would consider as a necessary alternative.

I fitted Polys to mine some time ago. Tightens the front end up a bit compared to rubber and were a lot cheaper than a new pair of genuine wishbones so it made sense to me. Also dont need the faff of torquing the bolts with the wheels on the ground which is a bonus.
Which reminds me, I must regrease them in the spring.

[cam.in.head]

CHRISTMAS HOLIDAY TINKERING !

hopefully the diehard enthusiasts ( or crazy people like me according to my friends !) will be taking advantage of the warm weather today compared with the last few days and doing a bit of festive tinkering ! i must admit that i usually do SOMETHING virtually every day and considering that i have 5 cars myself and look after 2 others for my partner and her daughter its not too hard to find something to do !
thats the reason i dont normaly post anything in this section as it would look a little 'me me me' ! everyday !
however
yesterday and this morning was to try a different alternator on the cav and compare the internal regulator current draw with my other cars "just out of  curiosity "   this led me down the road of discovering that my other cavs alternator draws 0.6ma and this one draws 2.4ma! . so i found that bench testing my stash of regulators some do indeed draw 0.6 (and some around 2.4ma)and one was duly fitted and reinstalled . this car now draws 0.6 ma with thd radio and clock fuse out .(and approx 3 with it in)
this is nothing at all realy in the great scheme of things but means if i leave a car not used for 3 months the battery is still fine . mind hou the omega can sit sometimes for 2 months of so and still be fine so i will have to record the draw of that just out of curiosity !
now you see why i dont post here !  lol

[TheBoy]

When I first needed them in 2009 they were already well over £250 each. That car only had two* wishbone replacements in 6 years/120k. And one of those was because I snapped one experimenting with poly rear bushes. And you know just what that car went through both before I bought it and in my ownership.

The first was to replace the worn out originals. These were Delphi ones that failed almost instantly. These were ultimately rebushed with poly bushes and were replaced with ATP sourced ones when they failed. The Delphi ones got rebuilt and were the ones I used for experimenting. When that arm snapped, they were both replaced with rebuilt ATP arms.

Fitted around 10 sets of ATP kits to various members cars over the years. The drop links were pretty short lived, but with the state of the roads they are a service item.

We'll have to agree to disagree re the ATP kits, but then that's been the case since they first became available 😉

How on earth did you manage to 'snap' a wishbone experimemting with polybushes? I'm sure even aftermarket wishbones can take a certain amount of abuse purely to be deemed 'fit for purpose'. Were you possibly being a bit 'hamfisted' ?

If I remember correctly Al was experimenting with the wishbone rear vertical bush. It over stressed it and eventually cracked so, as a trial he took one for the team. 

Exactly this - a few of us tried a number of different rear bush options.

Upon fitting mine, it was utterly fantastic for a few weeks, but I ended up tearing the poly.  Mine was a design similar to the front - poly with a metal tube spacer, that allowed very little flex.  I think DG's has a ball in IIRC (Yellow ones Al? Or and I thinking of somebody elses?).  Hardly surprising I wrecked them, every day was a torture test, LOL.  That was the old me, before being reformed by paying to be patronised.

I never managed to snap a wishbone, but the GM wishbones have better welding around rear bush, and stronger in this area, though still going to be prone to metal fatigue I'm sure.  But I gave up with the rear poly idea before anything happened, and accepted replacing the rear bushes every few years.

[TheBoy]

Had an enjoyable 110 mile drive in the Omega this morning, which is something I rarely do these days.
Down that East London via the A12, and then back via the A12 / A120.
Averaged just over 27mpg, which isnt bad, and as the traffic was reasonably light, touched three figures on the speedo a couple of times *.
It reminded me again that it really is a lovely old thing to drive

* Obviously this involved a slight detour to a private road. 

I still maintain that most Omegas are unbeatable for mile crunching.

My MFL tractor, Project TB2, was the most comfortable car I've ever driven.  Followed closely by my first one, the MFL MV6, aka Silver Bullet.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Just read my post back and I got it wrong. Return journey was M11 / A120.
Not A12 / A120. 
But yeah, they are still a great mile crunching car, even though mine is over 22 years old and a few hundred miles short of 200,000 on the clock.
It has had a fair few quid spent on it to keep it in fine mechanical fettle over the years though, so none of the suspension has done more then about 25,000 miles, which helps.

[YZ250]

…….
I still maintain that most Omegas are unbeatable for mile crunching.
……..

My 3.2 had some decent torque once rolling as well. I still smile at the memory of my 3.2 Elite as I swung out to the outside lane of Telegraph Hill on the A38 towards Newton Abbot, and the look on people’s faces as I overtook them going up the hill with 26’ of caravan on the back. I left my brother-in-law standing in his MG-ZT with his two berth on the back. He couldn’t believe it, that thing was an animal towing uphill.    Yes I’m aware that third lane overtakes whilst towing is illegal but they were all holding me up,  (you don’t often here that from a caravanner lol) and it was only briefly before it turns back to two lanes.