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[Nickbat]

Errr whats to 'design'? Its a cross roads with keep clear box?  :-/  :-/

To quote Entwood:
"I agree it is bad design to put a cycle stop, a pedestrian crossing and a box junction is such close proximity"

 

[tunnie]

i still don't see any massive problem with it, there are countless similar setups in London. You stop at the lights, move forward past the cycle stop and crossing (which is standard setup in london) I cycle to work, and that crossing is no different that 100's of others, straight on or right turn, dead easy, left turn, before you make the swing left into the box, if there are stationary cars just up to the box edge you don't move, simples! 

Like I said before, if your not in zombie mode, that's totality avoidable if you think ahead. If you get a fine, well, its clearly marked, so tough, its your fault!

[tunnie]

What is the world coming to? £1m in fines at a junction that no-one understands?

Also on this point, "no one understands"? So why is every single driver not getting fined? 9,000 were.... 2 people per hour on average. I guess a lot more than 2 people go through that junction every hour

So some stupid drivers end up coughing up some money, which lets face it councils need to fix potholes, so whats the down side?  :-/

[Nickbat]

i still don't see any massive problem with it, there are countless similar setups in London. You stop at the lights, move forward past the cycle stop and crossing (which is standard setup in london) I cycle to work, and that crossing is no different that 100's of others, straight on or right turn, dead easy, left turn, before you make the swing left into the box, if there are stationary cars just up to the box edge you don't move, simples! 

Like I said before, if your not in zombie mode, that's totality avoidable if you think ahead. If you get a fine, well, its clearly marked, so tough, its your fault!

So an oncoming vehicle and you both want to trun left (right in his/her case). From what you both can see, there is enough space for a car to fit beyond the exit of the box, so you both go. He's sharper of the mark (or drives a motorcycle) and beats you to the space beyond the box. Lights change and you still have your backsiide in the box. £120 Kerr-ching!   

[tunnie]

Like any junction its a judgement call, no matter how many times i pan around on street view, I can't see it being any different to the 100's other junctions in London. Or why its a big issue?

[tunnie]

http://goo.gl/maps/pohi

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8068422/Yellow-box-camera-raises-1-million-a-year.html

Same thing?

[Nickbat]

Like any junction its a judgement call, no matter how many times i pan around on street view, I can't see it being any different to the 100's other junctions in London. Or why its a big issue?

Evidently, this junction was singled out because the amount of transgressions & income derived was ascertained. £120 is a hefty fine to pay if you are caught out, as 9000 drivers have been. It is clear in my mind that you may make the best "judgement call" as you term it, and yet still get stranded on the yellow, through no basic fault of your own. The design of the box in relation to the buildings does not allow vehicles travelling in the camera direction (North, I would guess) to ascertain with any degree of certainty the amount of free space available for a left turn. Of course, we think in terms of cars and motorcycles, but I would not want to be driving an long artic and making a £120 gamble on that. :-?

Besides which, just because there are other junctions like that doesn't mean it makes it any less of a poor design.    

[Entwood]

i still don't see any massive problem with it, there are countless similar setups in London. You stop at the lights, move forward past the cycle stop and crossing (which is standard setup in london) I cycle to work, and that crossing is no different that 100's of others, straight on or right turn, dead easy, left turn, before you make the swing left into the box, if there are stationary cars just up to the box edge you don't move, simples! 

Like I said before, if your not in zombie mode, that's totality avoidable if you think ahead. If you get a fine, well, its clearly marked, so tough, its your fault!

So an oncoming vehicle and you both want to trun left (right in his/her case). From what you both can see, there is enough space for a car to fit beyond the exit of the box, so you both go. He's sharper of the mark (or drives a motorcycle) and beats you to the space beyond the box. Lights change and you still have your backsiide in the box. £120 Kerr-ching!   

That vehicle is already on the "box" and is, by definition, to YOUR RIGHT. In this country, there is a simple rule .. "priority from the right". You should wait for that vehicle to pass, then check there is space for you to clear the box .. before you move into the box.

It is NOT a race.

It's not rocket science .. it is simply obeying the "rules" and driving properly.

As already said .. "only" 9000 people have been done .. a tiny percentage of those who drive the junction .. and do it correctly.

Unfortunately, many drivers seem to think the rules don't apply to them, if they get fined and learn the hard way ... that's OK by me ..

[Nickbat]

i still don't see any massive problem with it, there are countless similar setups in London. You stop at the lights, move forward past the cycle stop and crossing (which is standard setup in london) I cycle to work, and that crossing is no different that 100's of others, straight on or right turn, dead easy, left turn, before you make the swing left into the box, if there are stationary cars just up to the box edge you don't move, simples! 

Like I said before, if your not in zombie mode, that's totality avoidable if you think ahead. If you get a fine, well, its clearly marked, so tough, its your fault!

So an oncoming vehicle and you both want to trun left (right in his/her case). From what you both can see, there is enough space for a car to fit beyond the exit of the box, so you both go. He's sharper of the mark (or drives a motorcycle) and beats you to the space beyond the box. Lights change and you still have your backsiide in the box. £120 Kerr-ching!   

That vehicle is already on the "box" and is, by definition, to YOUR RIGHT. In this country, there is a simple rule .. "priority from the right". You should wait for that vehicle to pass, then check there is space for you to clear the box .. before you move into the box.

It is NOT a race.

It's not rocket science .. it is simply obeying the "rules" and driving properly.

As already said .. "only" 9000 people have been done .. a tiny percentage of those who drive the junction .. and do it correctly.

Unfortunately, many drivers seem to think the rules don't apply to them, if they get fined and learn the hard way ... that's OK by me ..

If you both set off at the same time then you are likely not to realise the oncoming vehicle has eneterd the box until you are at least a few feet into it yourself. What do you do then? Stop? Reverse?  :-?

Funny how many expert 100% of the time law-abiding drivers there are on here. 

I am well aware of the priority rules "in this country". I was born here. 

[omegadan67]

You just need to plan ahead and not just be in zombie mode and follow everything in front without thinking, the yellow lines of the keep clear box are simple, don't stop inside them. The red Merc in the photo should stop around 2 feet back from where he is, if he clearly could see stationary traffic on his left turn.

9,000 drivers 'caught out' in a year, errr yeah and? How many drivers pass through that every week? 150,000? Who knows!

One thing is for sure, once fined, do you not think they might be a bit more active when it comes to future situations with keep clear box?

Like your rant on the BBC's use of 6 classes on staffs new commute for Manchester, I get the impression you take one small part of a story that you don't like from that utter toilet paper shyte paper Daily Mail then go into rant mode.

150,000 a day more like that is a main through fare to cut across london with out going in to the con zone

[Gaffers]

I'm with Tunnie and Entwood on this.  It's a no-brainer as far as the HC is concerned.  I just dont agree with the cameras 

[Nickbat]

I'm with Tunnie and Entwood on this.  It's a no-brainer as far as the HC is concerned.  I just dont agree with the cameras 

I think there should be more. Especially on the road to Church Stanton, so that motorcyclists can get hefty fines for overtaking on double solid white lines.
 

[tunnie]

I'm with Tunnie and Entwood on this.  It's a no-brainer as far as the HC is concerned.  I just dont agree with the cameras 

I think there should be more. Especially on the road to Church Stanton, so that motorcyclists can get hefty fines for overtaking on double solid white lines.
 

Tis fine, I was in Church Stretton! 

Yes I did bend the law there, but I knew there were no cameras, no one behind me, and they were holding me up