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Author Topic: Climate change,You must be joking!  (Read 44270 times)

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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #495 on: 06 February 2010, 21:55:40 »

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Hey I,m opened minded about a lot of things,but I know when I, being shafted by the goverment and big buisness.
                Alfie.
Ps  We have a eco neighbour who has just installed a eco friendly wood burning fire.Bloodly Awful,Smelly Polluting and unneighbourly.



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but I know when I, being shafted by the goverment and big buisness

Rest assured Alfie, you're not alone there.
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #496 on: 06 February 2010, 22:52:33 »

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Hello Elizabeth,Who do you think is making a nice fat profit out of this.
Is it the goverment,with their airport departure/surcharge tax on aircraft emissions.
Is the multinational engineering companies who make the wind turbines etc etc.
Is it the so called expertswho make their living out of scaring us to death with the end of the earth.
So its now make your mind up time,so everyone stop sitting on the fence and jump which ever way you think right.
                  Alfie.


We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen.  If there is no profit in it it will not.

I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason.  i.e. recycle all we can; save power when we can; do not abuse the earth by greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests or poluting so that the local populations are damaged such as during the industrial revolution or Cheynoble in recent times.

If there are ways we can achive these goals, whilst helping business make profit, which yet again the business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not?


Inspite of some claims, there is NO worldwide conspiracy in this, with even non-capitalist nations, such as huge China, agreeing "we", the world's population is facing many challenges and the planets leaders must unite to tackle the situation.  It is pure common sense, and if it proves to be over-reation, well so what?  Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created.  The world could also last a lot longer for homo sapien sapien. ;) ;)


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We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen

1.  A rather distasteful aspect of the system E.

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If there is no profit in it it will not

Perhaps that's the sort of direction our government should be thinking about taking in matters concerning energy policy.


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I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason.

I completely agree with you E, unfortunately our government seems to be proposing energy policies that are far from the reasonable.

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greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests

This is, of course, a natural casualty and another unsavoury aspect of the 'system' and of lax and uninterested government – not forgetting the lust for profit.

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business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not

2.  Of course they have E, they've been handed a licence to print money, so to speak, by government.  Since when was business all that interested in creating jobs and job security for the benefit of their staff?  The bottom line will always dictate employment practice and these benefactors of the business world will, for the most part, always wish to have the job done by the least number of people for the minimum outlay.


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Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created

3.  That's a rather idealized view E, if I might say so.  Will the jobs be worthwhile having and who will benefit from the profit but the shareholders and elite of the businesses concerned?

Finally I wouldn’t attach too much importance to what the Chinese say, as they do quite nicely in acquiring more than enough of the world's resources

1.  No, it is not totally as it has given this and many a western country security, comfort and a reasonably good life style that the majority of us are still benefiting from.  What is distasteful in that?   Have you, and don't you still enjoy the benefits of that, unlike those previously trapped in the USSR system of old?   

2.  You talk in terms Zulu of a separate big nasty business versus a poor down trodden employee who only considers the bottom line.  That is a very old fashioned and negative view point.  Modern companies are in a very competative world where profits are far harder to make, and no private company has a "licence to print money".  Yes it can be a dog eat dog environment, but that leads to healthy internal and external company development with the work force benefiting in terms of job security and pay.   Fail to meet performance targets, and yes the employee gets to know all about the lack of profit, with someone else being 'positioned' to do that instead. 

There are of course some employers who do not look after their staff, but in my experience medium to large corporate companies especially very activily pursue a policy of attracting the best staff, training them, and ensuring their working conditions are good so that the company can achieve the best profits through contented staff looking after valuable customers.  Higher profits from a positive minded company leads to expansion with extra jobs created.  A good healthy company prides itself in that.  Of course the system can dictate a reversal of fortunes with a loss of jobs, but that will never be erradicated.  Such is business life.

continued...................
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #497 on: 06 February 2010, 22:57:45 »

.......................

3.  If a job with pay is available then to most people it is worthwhile.   Short of having a revolution, their will always be shareholders who have invested their money in a company who should receive a dividend once in a while ( many businesses have failed to produce that in the past, present, and probably will not in the future - just read the FT).  THere will also exist the 'bosses', who are in fact not necessarily "the elite" in the way you mean Zulu, but men and women who have worked hard up through the ranks, with training given by the company, to manage the business at all levels.

With the environmental business what is wrong with staff being recruited, trained with new skills, developed within the business, and enjoying the profit of success?   This is not Dickensian England, but a 21st century member of Europe.  Let's enjoy the new age, and rejoice in the opportunities presented.

At times I can favour the Marxist approach, but it is not practicable at this point in time :D ;) ;)
« Last Edit: 06 February 2010, 22:58:54 by Lizzie_Zoom »
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #498 on: 06 February 2010, 23:42:02 »

Quote


Quote
We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen

1.  A rather distasteful aspect of the system E.

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If there is no profit in it it will not

Perhaps that's the sort of direction our government should be thinking about taking in matters concerning energy policy.


Quote
I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason.

I completely agree with you E, unfortunately our government seems to be proposing energy policies that are far from the reasonable.

Quote
greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests

This is, of course, a natural casualty and another unsavoury aspect of the 'system' and of lax and uninterested government – not forgetting the lust for profit.

Quote
business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not

2.  Of course they have E, they've been handed a licence to print money, so to speak, by government.  Since when was business all that interested in creating jobs and job security for the benefit of their staff?  The bottom line will always dictate employment practice and these benefactors of the business world will, for the most part, always wish to have the job done by the least number of people for the minimum outlay.


Quote
Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created

3.  That's a rather idealized view E, if I might say so.  Will the jobs be worthwhile having and who will benefit from the profit but the shareholders and elite of the businesses concerned?

Finally I wouldn’t attach too much importance to what the Chinese say, as they do quite nicely in acquiring more than enough of the world's resources

1.  No, it is not totally as it has given this and many a western country security, comfort and a reasonably good life style that the majority of us are still benefiting from.  What is distasteful in that?   Have you, and don't you still enjoy the benefits of that, unlike those previously trapped in the USSR system of old?   

2.  You talk in terms Zulu of a separate big nasty business versus a poor down trodden employee who only considers the bottom line.  That is a very old fashioned and negative view point.  Modern companies are in a very competative world where profits are far harder to make, and no private company has a "licence to print money".  Yes it can be a dog eat dog environment, but that leads to healthy internal and external company development with the work force benefiting in terms of job security and pay.   Fail to meet performance targets, and yes the employee gets to know all about the lack of profit, with someone else being 'positioned' to do that instead. 

There are of course some employers who do not look after their staff, but in my experience medium to large corporate companies especially very activily pursue a policy of attracting the best staff, training them, and ensuring their working conditions are good so that the company can achieve the best profits through contented staff looking after valuable customers.  Higher profits from a positive minded company leads to expansion with extra jobs created.  A good healthy company prides itself in that.  Of course the system can dictate a reversal of fortunes with a loss of jobs, but that will never be erradicated.  Such is business life.

continued...................[/quote]


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1.  No, it is not totally as it has given this and many a western country security, comfort and a reasonably good life style that the majority of us are still benefiting from.


There is plenty that is wrong with a system that, as a result of this desire to seize ‘opportunity’, the entire banking and financial structure of the west was all but brought down - and are we really enjoying the fruits of this healthy business atmosphere when one can expect minimal return on money saved yet be expected to pay top rates for money borrowed?

This current mess is the result of greed nothing more nothing less and that is one of the more distasteful aspects of largely unregulated ‘bottom line' business.


 
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Modern companies are in a very competative world where profits are far harder to make

....and it certainly shows in the cuts to staffing levels seen regularly and the reluctance to employ people on a permanent basis relying instead on the short time contract and reduced job security.


 no
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private company has a "licence to print money

With current government proposals regarding climate change that's just what they'll have recourse to.

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Yes it can be a dog eat dog environment, but that leads to healthy internal and external company development with the work force benefiting in terms of job security and pay

As many unfortunate people on here and around the country have found to their cost.

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but in my experience medium to large corporate companies especially very activily pursue a policy of attracting the best staff,

You have indeed been fortunate in that regard E - many have not.


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Higher profits from a positive minded company leads to expansion with extra jobs created

However in many cases it's a matter of directors and shareholders first.
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #499 on: 07 February 2010, 00:03:47 »

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.......................

3.  If a job with pay is available then to most people it is worthwhile.   Short of having a revolution, their will always be shareholders who have invested their money in a company who should receive a dividend once in a while ( many businesses have failed to produce that in the past, present, and probably will not in the future - just read the FT).  THere will also exist the 'bosses', who are in fact not necessarily "the elite" in the way you mean Zulu, but men and women who have worked hard up through the ranks, with training given by the company, to manage the business at all levels.

With the environmental business what is wrong with staff being recruited, trained with new skills, developed within the business, and enjoying the profit of success?   This is not Dickensian England, but a 21st century member of Europe.  Let's enjoy the new age, and rejoice in the opportunities presented.

At times I can favour the Marxist approach, but it is not practicable at this point in time :D ;) ;)



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If a job with pay is available then to most people it is worthwhile

....and that's the very thing many employers exploit in these 'new’ conditions - a case of "If you don't like it, there's plenty more to choose from"


 
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THere will also exist the 'bosses', who are in fact not necessarily "the elite" in the way you mean Zulu, but men and women who have worked hard up through the ranks, with training given by the company, to manage the business at all levels.

However laudable E, they will occupy the top table and would, I imagine, be predisposed to run their business in the most reliable way possible - by keeping outgoings low and profits high.


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and enjoying the profit of success?   This is not Dickensian England, but a 21st century member of Europe.  Let's enjoy the new age, and rejoice in the opportunities presented.

Can you really say that E?  The 'new age' has certainly shown that employees are the first to know when business gets into trouble.  This 'new age' has shown - in many cases - business to be rather indifferent to the needs of customers.  Is it too much to ask for a degree of morality in business practice?

 
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At times I can favour the Marxist approach, but it is not practicable at this point in time

The idea of employing Marxist ideals is a busted flush E - I'm certainly no advocate for the cause.
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Nickbat

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #500 on: 07 February 2010, 00:31:24 »

Is there no end to this corruption?

"The research institute run by the head of the UN’s climate body has handed out a series of environmental awards to companies that have given it financial support, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7177323/Climate-change-research-bungle.html

 ::) ::)
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unlucky alf

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #501 on: 07 February 2010, 00:41:06 »

meanwhile yet another scientist has "accidently" been hitting the delete button, oh how clumsy >:(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249035/How-Met-Office-blocked-questions-mans-role-hockey-stick-climate-row.html
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Nickbat

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #502 on: 07 February 2010, 00:45:25 »

Oh, and yet more...

"New errors in IPCC climate change report"

"Despite these checks, a diagram used to demonstrate the potential for generating electricity from wave power has been found to contain numerous errors."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7177230/New-errors-in-IPCC-climate-change-report.html

Hands up how many people thought the UN IPCC was the definitive authority on climate issues...

...you were had, big time.

 ;)  8-) 
« Last Edit: 07 February 2010, 00:45:39 by Nickbat »
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Nickbat

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #503 on: 07 February 2010, 00:47:47 »

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meanwhile yet another scientist has "accidently" been hitting the delete button, oh how clumsy >:(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249035/How-Met-Office-blocked-questions-mans-role-hockey-stick-climate-row.html


That's an amazing story. :o :o

Thanks for posting, Alf!  :y
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jereboam

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #504 on: 07 February 2010, 13:07:03 »

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Here it is

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm

And in the space of 2 months :o


With the weather experienced in the UK it is hardly surprising that a poll will reflect a small percentage increase in people who do not believe in global warming.  The rise from 15% to 25% who say they do not believe is hardly earth shattering. ;) ;)

Ah, and just to add January 2010 has been the warmest on average, world wide, for 32 years:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/2010/02/2010_will_be_a_very_warm_year.html

Note: This is by "Dr Spencer is a leading and well-qualified climate change sceptic"

Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it.  Now that can be continually debated! ;) ;)



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Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it


I do agree with you E - although as far as I'm concerned I tend to lean towards the solar camp rather than the anthropogenic.

The real matter for concern is what can be done to lessen the effects of this change on humanity.

With the emphasis on changing our behaviour in a misguided attempt to arrest this change - and all the billions and infringement on personal liberty and choice that it will cost - the real goal of developing sound technology to combat change will be all but ignored for the rather blunt and inelegant tool of taxation, increased pricing and strict control (for the masses at least) of energy use.

This climate change, already part of the earth's cycle, cannot be stopped in my view, and the sooner government's realize this and stop trying to achieve the impossible, the sooner we can develop sensible ways to ensure our continued stewardship of the planet.

OK, I'll agree that climate change is taking place.  I'm inclined to think that it has been doing so for about 4.5 billion years. 

What we need to quantify is the rate of change over time.  We need to look at a number of timescales as well - how rapid has the change been over the last 10, 100, 1000, 10000, 100000 years?  And then we need to analyse episodes occurring during those ranges.

This is hard science, albeit statistically based, and I'm sure it is being done.  It's not the same science as the study of atmospheric physics, which is at least as difficult to carry out successfully.  Nor are either of these disciplines the same as, or even closely related to, Ecology, Anthropology, Meteorology and Geography.  Yet inputs from all of these distinct academic areas (and many others) are being put into the media blender and attributed to "Climate Scientists".

"A little learning is a dangerous thing" should be emblazoned upon the entrance of every Newsroom in the journalistic firmament. :)
« Last Edit: 07 February 2010, 13:08:24 by plstewart »
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Nickbat

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #505 on: 08 February 2010, 22:06:21 »

Pachauri. What a scumbag.

Now he's after frightening our kids.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HesdOJdLN-k[/media]
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jereboam

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #506 on: 09 February 2010, 03:42:43 »

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #507 on: 10 February 2010, 00:00:25 »

No comments tonight............ :y
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STMO999

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Re: Climate change,You must be joking!
« Reply #508 on: 10 February 2010, 10:41:20 »

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No comments tonight............ :y

Only yours.
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