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[STEMO]

All the time the leaders of countries just get together for a good old jolly & piss up things won't change, they have no interest of the " rest of us" and if people think they have their kidding themselves. Just live every day like its your last.

Yeah....I'm gonna go out there.....and buy myself a Honda 

[Sir Tigger KC]

All the time the leaders of countries just get together for a good old jolly & piss up things won't change, they have no interest of the " rest of us" and if people think they have their kidding themselves. Just live every day like its your last.

Yeah....I'm gonna go out there.....and buy myself a Honda 

Wild.   

[STEMO]

All the time the leaders of countries just get together for a good old jolly & piss up things won't change, they have no interest of the " rest of us" and if people think they have their kidding themselves. Just live every day like its your last.

Yeah....I'm gonna go out there.....and buy myself a Honda 

Wild.   

Not just yet though, don't wanna get too excited at my age 

[Sir Tigger KC]

All the time the leaders of countries just get together for a good old jolly & piss up things won't change, they have no interest of the " rest of us" and if people think they have their kidding themselves. Just live every day like its your last.

Yeah....I'm gonna go out there.....and buy myself a Honda 

Wild.   

Not just yet though, don't wanna get too excited at my age 

Yes you take it steady Uncle STEMO! 

[Migalot]

I believe that the expansionist policies of NATO and the  EU gave Putin the excuse to do what he did, but now he has done it he must be stopped regardless that.

It was the EU and their Association Agreement which kicked it all off much more than NATO, as Putin didn't want Ukraine becoming an EU satellite.

There was never any prospect of Ukraine joining NATO, although if they had joined maybe this mess wouldn't be happening. 

Wrong. Putin said he would accept Ukraine in the EU as it's not a military bloc (well not at the moment anyway).

https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/18/uk-ukraine-crisis-eu-russia

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The process of it becoming one is underway though.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I believe that the expansionist policies of NATO and the  EU gave Putin the excuse to do what he did, but now he has done it he must be stopped regardless that.

It was the EU and their Association Agreement which kicked it all off much more than NATO, as Putin didn't want Ukraine becoming an EU satellite.

There was never any prospect of Ukraine joining NATO, although if they had joined maybe this mess wouldn't be happening. 

Wrong. Putin said he would accept Ukraine in the EU as it's not a military bloc (well not at the moment anyway).

https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/18/uk-ukraine-crisis-eu-russia

That article is from 2022, Putin's attitude was very different in 2013 when he pressured Viktor Yanukovych the then Ukrainian President to abandon the EU Association Agreement that had taken years to negotiate literally days before he was due to sign it, in favour of a trade agreement and loan guarantees with Russia. 

We all know what happened next... EuroMaidan, Yanukovych's downfall and Russian exile, Russia's Little Green Men invasion of Crimea and the start of the Ukraine/Russia war in the Donbass.

Some say that the downfall of Viktor Yanukovych was a coup organised by the CIA!    Now I love a good conspiracy theory, but given the well documented events of the time, I think it's more likely that the moon is made of Swiss cheese and that the Clangers do indeed live there. 

[ronnyd]

We need Rods2 back to enlighten us. I know he was a tad intense but a fair amount of what he said had legs. Believe his wife was from Ukraine too.

[Migalot]

Some say that the downfall of Viktor Yanukovych was a coup organised by the CIA!    Now I love a good conspiracy theory, but given the well documented events of the time, I think it's more likely that the moon is made of Swiss cheese and that the Clangers do indeed live there. 

Wonder why Victoria Nuland was handing out cookies to the fascist demonstrators on Maidan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p84KzkdKZb4&t=528

Nine years old, but fresh at the time.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Some say that the downfall of Viktor Yanukovych was a coup organised by the CIA!    Now I love a good conspiracy theory, but given the well documented events of the time, I think it's more likely that the moon is made of Swiss cheese and that the Clangers do indeed live there. 

Wonder why Victoria Nuland was handing out cookies to the fascist demonstrators on Maidan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p84KzkdKZb4&t=528

Nine years old, but fresh at the time.

 

I don't know.... maybe they were spiked with an essence of revolutionary fervour? 

Do you seriously think that a US State Department official wandering around a protest camp is proof that the CIA orchestrated a coup in Ukraine? 

And fascists demonstrators?    Seriously?     

[Migalot]

 

I don't know.... maybe they were spiked with an essence of revolutionary fervour? 

Do you seriously think that a US State Department official wandering around a protest camp is proof that the CIA orchestrated a coup in Ukraine? 

And fascists demonstrators?    Seriously?     

You've not read about the Azov Batallion. I used the word "fascist" to avoid the use of the more apt "N***" word.

Senator Eric Brakey spells it out here.

https://youtu.be/8SYzlEmJWOE?t=518

[Sir Tigger KC]

 

I don't know.... maybe they were spiked with an essence of revolutionary fervour? 

Do you seriously think that a US State Department official wandering around a protest camp is proof that the CIA orchestrated a coup in Ukraine? 

And fascists demonstrators?    Seriously?     

You've not read about the Azov Batallion. I used the word "fascist" to avoid the use of the more apt "N***" word.

Senator Eric Brakey spells it out here.

https://youtu.be/8SYzlEmJWOE?t=518

Of course. Doesn't mean that all Ukrainians are Nazis though. 

Britain ran concentration camps in South Africa during the Boer Wars and much more recently in Kenya in the 1950's during the Mau Mau uprising.  Does that make all Brits fascists and Nazis? 

[Migalot]

Of course. Doesn't mean that all Ukrainians are Nazis though. 

Britain ran concentration camps in South Africa during the Boer Wars and much more recently in Kenya in the 1950's during the Mau Mau uprising.  Does that make all Brits fascists and Nazis? 

Of course not. However, the fact  remains that, in Western Ukraine, far-right nationalism is deeply entrenched. Every 1 January, they "celebrate" the birth of Stepan Bandera – the obnoxious Ukrainian who was the leader of a branch of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B), which collaborated with the Nazis during the German occupation of western Ukraine. Although Bandera himself was imprisoned in Germany for much of the war, his followers founded the paramilitary Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), under the leadership of the OUN-B, which was responsible for the massacre of up to 100,000 Poles and tens of thousands of Jews during the war.

Vinnitsa in Ukraine has even renamed a street from Leo Tolstoy to Stepan Bandera. That's how deep-rooted Nazism is in Western Ukraine.

Even the BBC covered the Nazi problem but, of course, that was a few years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY 

 

[Mister Rog]

Excellent interview with Jim Ferguson.

I was always happy to support an EU which was solely interested in trade and free movement. As soon as it became deeply political, I had worries so that's why I voted for Brexit. Seems my fears are coming true, but Brexit may not stop it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCIJeqseEec

Same here. If the EU was just about trade, I would be in favour. But it's not.

A lot of the Remain camp bat on about passports, import duties, paperwork, and other relatively minor inconveniences. It's all peanuts compared with political and military control.

[Migalot]

Excellent interview with Jim Ferguson.

I was always happy to support an EU which was solely interested in trade and free movement. As soon as it became deeply political, I had worries so that's why I voted for Brexit. Seems my fears are coming true, but Brexit may not stop it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCIJeqseEec

Same here. If the EU was just about trade, I would be in favour. But it's not.

A lot of the Remain camp bat on about passports, import duties, paperwork, and other relatively minor inconveniences. It's all peanuts compared with political and military control.

100% correct.