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[zirk]

Tough, it's going to happen, so live with it.

Quite so.

Until the campaign to rejoin gets off the ground 

Yea like that's ever going happen or change anything.

You got more chance of Trump being burned by the stake for Treason by the CIA,            ...... actually cancel that that probably will happen.

[Viral_Jim]

Ever is a long time Zirk.

Remember the reaction dear ol Nigel got when he told the European Parliament he was taking us out 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Unfortunately the EU will be a constant running sore in this country regardless of how BREXIT turns out, as there will always be those who would take us back in. 

The only event that can heal this sore is the demise of the EU itself, and I wouldn't bet against that happening. 

[Viral_Jim]

Nor would I.

A complete dissolution seems unlikely, but some sort of 2 tier system on the other hand...

[Varche]

Two speed EU? You mean like some countries have open door policy on migrants with others hounding them?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Unfortunately the EU will be a constant running sore in this country regardless of how BREXIT turns out, as there will always be those who would take us back in. 

The only event that can heal this sore is the demise of the EU itself, and I wouldn't bet against that happening. 

I firmly believe that its only a matter of time before the EU implodes. If Le Pen wins in France it will happen within 5 years at most. If she doesn't, I would give it 10 at most.
The UK wont break up either. If they had a referendum now they would vote to remain.
If they don't get one for 5-10 years, the EU may well be gone, and if it isn't it will be one horrendous mess, that no-one would want to join.

[Mister Rog]

Unfortunately the EU will be a constant running sore in this country regardless of how BREXIT turns out, as there will always be those who would take us back in. 

The only event that can heal this sore is the demise of the EU itself, and I wouldn't bet against that happening. 

Netherlands, a fairly close call with right winger Wilders doing not bad at all

France, Le Pen in No 2 position at present

Others have a quite an anti EU element going on in various guises

I certainly don't consider myself hard right wing at all, but most right wingers want out of the EU

 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

As do genuine left wingers*, as opposed to neo Blairite types.

Tony Benn, Michael Foot, Barbara Castle, Peter Shore, Neil Kinnock before he sold his soul. Even Tony Blair, before his ego grew into a mental illness which convinced him he is entitled to run the world, and nation states were parochial little entities which could inhibit the process.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Ever is a long time Zirk.

Remember the reaction dear ol Nigel got when he told the European Parliament he was taking us out 

Exactly.  In politics a week is a long time, and you can never say never.  The last year has proved that.

My comments have stirred the very comments I thought they would. This Forum never changes with some dug in to their beliefs and never wanting to discuss other possibilities, but insult those who have.

ALL I am saying, as my unlikely "hero" Tony Blair is, that we should keep our minds open and be ready to rethink any fundamental changes that a Hard Brexit will bring to our proud nation. We must never just say to ourselves "well it is done and dusted and no matter how it is going to effect my family let's just live with it".  Thank God strong people have always been there in British history to question, whilst not being scared by the insulting detractors, and take another route.  Whilst talking about Tony Blair never forget he created the political will for the Good Friday Agreement and be the first PM to finally bring the mayhem that was Northern Ireland to an end with opposing parties talking to each other.

Things change in politics, and in the case of Europe that, yes I agree, may well implode in the future, vital elements of leaving that organisation, that is far from perfect, like democracy itself, must always be kept in mind as we leap out. Walk around your supermarket doing your "big shop" and you will readily experience one result of Brexit before it happens; prices have shot up, with a devalued pound in your pocket. Is that not worthy of further consideration by the public before they allow the politicians to go ahead with "out"?  Or perhaps we should do what politicians normally do and just go ahead with a policy, regardless of the majority of public opinion at that point in time, that will wreck the financial security of millions of families.

I am sure STEMO that at Ellesmere Port, along with at Luton, many thousands of Vauxhall workers are now very worried about their future if Brexit happens regardless. What will be the public reaction to our present Government when thousands of Vauxhall, and possibly other motor companies, workers are seen protesting about losing their jobs?  Brexit will have an effect on the tarrifs on cars built in Britain, with parts from all over Europe.  The temptation of management to bring production back "in house" to the then new shaped Europe to reduce costs, will be enormous. That is just one example of where we are heading.

Therefore is it wrong to keep questioning the worth of Brexit before we finally jump?

I as a Conservative Socialist believe that it is not wrong at all, to keep our minds open, so the British workers get the best deal for their families future.

[Varche]

Of course we should keep our options open and adapt as we go along. I tongue in cheek suggested that Britaon creates a trading bloc and calls it a common market. But why not?  People are entrenched in their views. There is a generation that have been ignored by all political parties as they engage in their own agenda.

We are in the mess we are in now because of complacency. We have all drifted along allowing the EU to become what it has despite so called democracy. The 28 leaders should have adapted to change some years ago, instead they stuck doggedly to their dogma. They were entrenched too as well as shockingly complacent.

Lets not forget that it was our beloved Tories led by Cameron that accidentally opened (thankfully) the can of worms bygambling a sure bet and allowing the plebs (that is us) to vote. Again huge complacency as it transpires that no planning was done for the possibility of it going ou. People should havebeen sacked

It all remindsme of a couple wanting an amicable divorce but thesolicitors etc whip up a frenzy and it all emds up being a mess. Lets hope the negotiators on both sides are sensible and of good metal. I suspect that come the end of 2 years there will be lots of issues unresolved and they will be governed by grandfather rights till resolved.

On a personal note i hope that the situation of EU nationals in UK and us Expats abroad is resolved quickly. It is one thing to have uncertainty over the price of lettuces ( inflated because of floods and bad weather here in Spain) , proce of next New BMW and completely
another to not know if you can afford to continue being a retired expat in France if you have to pay for your healthcare each month or if you can continue picking celery on minimum wage in Norfolk.

[Sir Tigger KC]

On a personal note i hope that the situation of EU nationals in UK and us Expats abroad is resolved quickly. It is one thing to have uncertainty over the price of lettuces ( inflated because of floods and bad weather here in Spain) , proce of next New BMW and completely
another to not know if you can afford to continue being a retired expat in France if you have to pay for your healthcare each month or if you can continue picking celery on minimum wage in Norfolk.

And shame on Junker, Tusk and Merkel for refusing to do an early deal on peoples rights and futures before A50, when HMG has offered to sit down and resolve this in advance. 

Personally, I don't think there will be a deal and I don't think this will be down to the British Government.  It was reported yesterday that after A50 is delivered next week there will be an 'Extraordinary Summit' to discuss the EU's response in 4 to 6 weeks time.  The wheels of the EU machine grind exceedingly slowly and I doubt that there is little recognition that there is only 18 months to resolve issues that affect peoples lives across Europe.    We only have to look at the fiasco that was the Canadian trade deal to see this. 

[TheBoy]

For the vote, I was in remain camp.  Not because I'm pro EU, but because it was the wrong time to leave.  It is going to hurt us badly.


But all the mainstream media was behind leaving - every paper and every news bulletin was constantly showing all the immigrants constantly trying to get to Europe, something still going on as much now, but never mentioned, so it was inevitable which way the vote was going.

Being kind, lets say 40% of the voting population has some intelligence, the rest will just vote how the Fail/Sun/Sky/BBC tell them.


But whats done is done, time to kick it off.

[Kevin Wood]

What amuses me is the constant calling for parliament / the electorate to have another vote once we've "negotiated  the terms". Has nobody actually looked at what article 50 says? 

[Doctor Gollum]

Apparently not

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

As said before I am a 'remainer' and not a 'remoaner'. We lost. It happens. That's life.

In my opinion it was the young people who 'lost' the vote for remain. Most, but not all, are natural 'remainers' and therein lies the problem. They 'remained' in bed, they 'remained' in the pub, they 'remained' glued to their playstation or X-box etc etc. A bunch of able-bodied lazy bastards who refuse to take adult responsibility and then bleat about it after the event.

I mean, if a shagged-out old fart like STMO can drag himself to the polling station to vote then why couldn't significant numbers of fit  eighteen, nineteen, and twenty year olds do the same.