Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[tunnie]

Well try cycling in London, have you done it? I did for several years until recently 

To allow passengers out of the car, the driver should have indicated and pulled to the left. (it was in standard flow, it was not close to the pavement as per a bus) There was no indication that someone was about to exit the car, additionally due amount of cycles in London the passenger should have done a shoulder check to confirm it was clear before exiting.

Cycling on the inside is perfectly fine, thats how everyone does it in London. In the middle (traditional over-take) it's full of motorcycles going faster. Its not perhaps the highway code, but that's how it works in London.

So in my view, 100% complete driver/passenger fault. 

[tunnie]

Also if you want to get technical, the Highway Code:

"A regulation under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, which designates criminal motoring offences, states: “No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person.”

[Nick W]

The whole reason for using two-wheeled vehicles in traffic is to filter through it. If you're not going to do that, you might as well be in a car. But anyone who does it must accept the risks involved: other road users may not realise that you can still be moving past them even if they are stationary.


As for cycles only passing on the right, that would mean far more, and dangerous, movements through the traffic. It can be hard enough moving over just to turn right.


The real problem here is that traffic incidents are actually uncommon enough to make most road users(drivers, cyclists, motor-cyclists, truck/bus drivers, pedestrians - ALL of them) complacent about their actions. And there is no cure for this.

[Entwood]

The whole reason for using two-wheeled vehicles in traffic is to filter through it. If you're not going to do that, you might as well be in a car. But anyone who does it must accept the risks involved: other road users may not realise that you can still be moving past them even if they are stationary.


As for cycles only passing on the right, that would mean far more, and dangerous, movements through the traffic. It can be hard enough moving over just to turn right.


The real problem here is that traffic incidents are actually uncommon enough to make most road users(drivers, cyclists, motor-cyclists, truck/bus drivers, pedestrians - ALL of them) complacent about their actions. And there is no cure for this.

Afraid I disagree .. if all the stationary car drivers had moved well left BEFORE stopping there would be a) no room for cyclists to pass on the left, b) plenty of room for bikes, both pedalled and motored, to pass on the right..... however all you see is numpties moving out and sitting on the white line so they can look down the line and see when the car 12 in front of them moves ... a somewhat pointless procedure. 

[Entwood]

Also if you want to get technical, the Highway Code:

"A regulation under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, which designates criminal motoring offences, states: “No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person.”

I believe your quote is somewhat out of date, no idea which version of the highway code you are using, but the latest (on line) version gives rule 239, and a nice picture to go with it that clearly shows that is relevant to the DRIVER not the passenger.......

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/waiting-and-parking-238-to-252

and while its not down to me to question the law .. RTA section 42 refers to construction and use ... ...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents

There are of course also rules 67, 68, and rule 162 - 169 which apply to cyclists (and other road users) .......

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I fully agree with Entwood. Cyclist was illegally undertaking. Anything which results from that is the cyclists responsibility. End of.
If cycling in London is only made feasible by undertaking, then don't cycle.
I have undertaken when riding motorbikes, but in the full awareness that any incident that happens during the manoeuvre is going to be my fault and no-one elses.

[tunnie]

The whole reason for using two-wheeled vehicles in traffic is to filter through it. If you're not going to do that, you might as well be in a car. But anyone who does it must accept the risks involved: other road users may not realise that you can still be moving past them even if they are stationary.


As for cycles only passing on the right, that would mean far more, and dangerous, movements through the traffic. It can be hard enough moving over just to turn right.


The real problem here is that traffic incidents are actually uncommon enough to make most road users(drivers, cyclists, motor-cyclists, truck/bus drivers, pedestrians - ALL of them) complacent about their actions. And there is no cure for this.

Afraid I disagree .. if all the stationary car drivers had moved well left BEFORE stopping there would be a) no room for cyclists to pass on the left, b) plenty of room for bikes, both pedalled and motored, to pass on the right..... however all you see is numpties moving out and sitting on the white line so they can look down the line and see when the car 12 in front of them moves ... a somewhat pointless procedure. 

I would suggest you cycle in London for yourself, see where you like filtering   

You would soon realise the left is the place to be. 

[Entwood]

The whole reason for using two-wheeled vehicles in traffic is to filter through it. If you're not going to do that, you might as well be in a car. But anyone who does it must accept the risks involved: other road users may not realise that you can still be moving past them even if they are stationary.


As for cycles only passing on the right, that would mean far more, and dangerous, movements through the traffic. It can be hard enough moving over just to turn right.


The real problem here is that traffic incidents are actually uncommon enough to make most road users(drivers, cyclists, motor-cyclists, truck/bus drivers, pedestrians - ALL of them) complacent about their actions. And there is no cure for this.

Afraid I disagree .. if all the stationary car drivers had moved well left BEFORE stopping there would be a) no room for cyclists to pass on the left, b) plenty of room for bikes, both pedalled and motored, to pass on the right..... however all you see is numpties moving out and sitting on the white line so they can look down the line and see when the car 12 in front of them moves ... a somewhat pointless procedure. 

I would suggest you cycle in London for yourself, see where you like filtering   

You would soon realise the left is the place to be. 

What I "like" and what the law allows are often diametrically opposed, in many areas not just cycling .....If I was allowed to do what I "like" .......

[Nick W]

I would suggest you cycle in London for yourself, see where you like filtering 

You would soon realise the left is the place to be. 

If cyclists filter on the right, will car drivers refrain from undertaking them? That seems unlikely. I've had a beer, so I'm feeling charitable.


Also, being just to the left of the centre of the road gives oncoming traffic a sporting chance of not seeing cyclists too. This is a common cause of motorcycle crashes.

[Viral_Jim]

I've never cycled in London, or anywhere else for that matter. But I did drive there for a couple of years (a combination of hating all forms of public transportation and having someone else pay your parking bill!).

Whenever I was planning to turn left, or coming to a halt for that matter I simply positioned my car over to the left, leaving only 6" or so between the wheel and the curb. And consequently plenty of space on the outside. By removing the opportunity for a cyclist to pass you on the inside, and giving them space on the correct side. You prevent the problem arising.

Beats me why everyone (in a car) doesn't drive this way in London. I appreciate this isn't an option for many larger vehicles as they need to swing wide in order to turn.

As to the vid in question, 50/50 and a non-story IMHO. Just because everyone does it, doesn't absolve the cyclist of blame. Presumably the same logic would have made it my fault when a cyclist Collided with me while I was walking on a pedestrian crossing (my priority). After all, they all seem to ignore the rules on traffic lights as well 

[STEMO]

I don't know what it is about cyclists that provokes such venom (Well, I do actually), but some people have it in for them. It's probably, as has been mentioned, their selfish, holier than thou attitude.
Where I walk the dog in the morning, there is a lakeside path surrounded by woods. Cyclists are not allowed on the path, but they ignore this. Because they are not allowed on the path, they think the woods belong to them, and take great delight in charging past people on muddy tracks, ringing their silly little fairy bells and barely missing people (and dogs).
Every morning when I walk in the woods, people have gone to a great deal of trouble to put large branches and even small trees across the paths, no doubt hoping one of the two wheeled terrorists will come a cropper. For folk to be bothered doing this, they must be really pissed off, it takes some effort by the look of it.
I must confess, if one of them went a bit too close to my dog, I think I would probably kill him.

Dogs are another pet hate of some people. They have to be kept on a lead on the path, but dog owners ignore this. There are signs threatening huge fines should your dog shit on the path and you fail to pick it up. As there is no one to enforce this, there is dog shite everywhere. Cyclists must get this stuff all over the bike and themselves when illegally cycling through the illegal dog shit.

Children are not the favourite type of human for a lot of older couples who walk on the path. Noisy little beggars spoil the peaceful walk with their shouting, screaming and running around. Shouldn't be allowed anywhere near. Old people are generally disliked by everyone. Moany old bastids.

So....that leaves young, childless couples who don't own a dog or a bicycle. But I'm sure someone must hate them too. 

[STEMO]

In other words, we all break the rules, every day. We just hate the people who, by breaking the rules,  interfere with our rule breaking.

I think.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

People can break the rules all they like as far as I'm concerned. I always have, and probably always will.
Its when it goes wrong and they wont take it on the chin, and try and blame anyone but themselves, that I lose all sympathy for them.

[tunnie]

I would suggest you cycle in London for yourself, see where you like filtering 

You would soon realise the left is the place to be. 

If cyclists filter on the right, will car drivers refrain from undertaking them? That seems unlikely. I've had a beer, so I'm feeling charitable.


Also, being just to the left of the centre of the road gives oncoming traffic a sporting chance of not seeing cyclists too. This is a common cause of motorcycle crashes.

Yeah, left is far better in all areas. Road speeds change and as you say cars would just undertake cycles.

Filtering on left allows cars to over take when they need, cycle lanes come and go. Sometimes painted lines, or filters onto a painted section of pavement.

[biggriffin]

Hmmmm. and there just happened to be a camera there, at the right time.