Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[cem_devecioglu]

good night all .. its 01 20 am here

[albitz]

So the government will borrow the money to fund the pension schemes and make future generations pay the bill,which is morally wrong imo.

And why not?

Is not the Government democratically elected?

Sort of yes,but morally bankrupt.They do these things to buy the votes of greedy people. Commiting future generations to paying for the demands of the current one is very difficult to justify imo. The future generations don't get a democratic vote on it,as they aren't born yet.

[albitz]

good night all .. its 01 20 am here

Night Cem.

[albitz]

Getting back to the original post. Apparently engineers at the refinery were earning up to  £80,000 per annum - according to whats just been said on SKY news.
And the plant has been losing £10 million per month.

question is : how much was refinery earning per annum

Losses of £150 million per year, for several years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10398563/Grangemouth-owners-Ineos-to-close-petrochemical-site.html

a refinery loosing 150 million per year and for many years ..  3 questions arise.. with the current fuel prices how can this be possible ?

was this refinery in the same conditions from the very beginning ?

and was the management in beauty sleep and how they could continue this for years ?

something unusual imo

A staggeringly high percentage of fuel prices here is taxation.It continued for years,because management have been trying to negotiate for years with a very militant Union,who wouldn't see reason,and assumed the management were bluffing. Despite the figures being in black & white.

[albitz]

and was the management in beauty sleep and how they could continue this for years ?

something unusual imo

Great minds think alike Cem!

The downfall of British industry ... poor weak management and greedy power crazy union barons

Fixed.

[Seth]

The downfall of British industry ... poor weak management and trade union leaders/members who ain't prepared to suffer the consequent fall-out.

^^^   Re-fixed   ^^^ ... gotta agree to disagree with you on this.

Gonna watch Doc Martin on 'catch-up' now, so "nighty-night" Albs!

[Vamps]

BSkyBs pension contributions are healthy for a private company, 8% while I put in 4%. They had a new online calculator, it's scary how much you need for a "healthy" pension. Even something modest such as £15k pension in today's terms, I needed to increase my contributions massively. I've now increased to 8% myself, so 16 combined. Even this is not enough, I need to go further soon.

Think people in pubic sector are dreaming if they think their pensions can continue the way they are, so many need to wake up.

[/highlight]

Don't forget that such a pension is offset against poorer salary than is paid in the private sector, in my job very few people in the private sector deal with the 'risk' on a day to day basis that I do. Those few private companies that do, would pay me £10 - 15k more than I get in the public sector, which, if I were younger, is where I would move to now, as it will be the future.............

[albitz]

Public sector salaries are higher than private sector salaries.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10370699/Public-sector-workers-earn-3200-more-than-those-in-private-sector.html

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publications/category/item/public-and-private-sector-pay-2013-update

Tunnies right Im afraid.Its not possible for the country to ever afford the current pension arrangements for the public sector in any foreseeable circumstances.
There are around 5.7 million people officially employed in the public sector.The true figure may be considerably higher,as quite a lot of jobs which used to be officially public sector are now disguised as private sector jobs,for political reasons.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pse/public-sector-employment/q1-2013/stb-pse-2013q1.html

The private sector consists of around 24 million jobs (many of which are minimum wage these days),so the figures for providing the salary packages and pension liabilities from taxation of the private sector are never going to add up.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246878/Record-24m-jobs-private-sector-state-payroll-shrinks-smallest-number-decade.html

The number of people employed in the public sector has decreased,but the total wages bill has risen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20561444

[Vamps]

Whatever....... Not even going there, Tunnie would die at the decisions I Have to make, as would you.........each to their own........

[cem_devecioglu]

Public sector salaries are higher than private sector salaries.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10370699/Public-sector-workers-earn-3200-more-than-those-in-private-sector.html

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publications/category/item/public-and-private-sector-pay-2013-update

Albs, I can see your point.. but my experience thought me to examine those kinds of reports with some certain degree of suspicion.. as I know those study results depend on who ask for them..    I checked the report and cant see the detail of actual numbers of workers.. An exact study including all workers not that easy to complete.. honestly this report does not smell objective in the first place
 
in a system which finds all sorts of bollix excuses to discard workers or to decrease their salaries, pensions, you can easily find /create fake results.. because actually the system is a big lie in it..
 
I'll check other links when I have time

[Varche]

I would have loved to have been behind the scenes on this one. My bet is a secret deal has been struck between Salmond and the owners and it will reopen

1. We have witnessed history in the making. Unions emasculated.

2. I dare say the people behind the plant have gold plated pensions but we aren't supposed to notice or talk about that.

Funny how Britain is gearing up for thousands dying again this winter because they cannot afford to have their heating on despite Britain being a very wealthy country

[Kevin Wood]

Funny how Britain is gearing up for thousands dying again this winter because they cannot afford to have their heating on despite Britain being a very wealthy country

Got to pay for the Windmills somehow. It's not like they'll generate enough to pay for themselves.

[Varche]

Yep, deal struck!

"It added that Unite had agreed to taking no strike action for three years, moving to a "modern" pension scheme and accepting a three-year pay freeze.

Ineos also confirmed it would invest a further £300m in the site's long-term future. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24671184

[MR MISTER]

I would have loved to have been behind the scenes on this one. My bet is a secret deal has been struck between Salmond and the owners and it will reopen

1. We have witnessed history in the making. Unions emasculated.

2. I dare say the people behind the plant have gold plated pensions but we aren't supposed to notice or talk about that.

Funny how Britain is gearing up for thousands dying again this winter because they cannot afford to have their heating on despite Britain being a very wealthy country

A pretty safe bet, Varche, as the deal was announced before your post.

[cleggy]

I would have loved to have been behind the scenes on this one. My bet is a secret deal has been struck between Salmond and the owners and it will reopen

1. We have witnessed history in the making. Unions emasculated.

2. I dare say the people behind the plant have gold plated pensions but we aren't supposed to notice or talk about that.

Funny how Britain is gearing up for thousands dying again this winter because they cannot afford to have their heating on despite Britain being a very wealthy country

We could give pensioners and the vulnerable free heating if we scrapped foreign aid