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[philhoward]

Long time no visit...

I've been busy on the QT transplanting an X30XE into my Scimitar (yes, its been done before) and finally got to the moment this evening of turning the key...and it wasn't all roses

The one thing thats been bugging me is if the Alarm module is needed - the key antenna unit has a blue/red wire direct to the ECU (and another that I can't remember where it came from), key is in the antenna module (is position important) yet all I get is a flashing fault lamp which i'm pretty sure is Immobiliser still active.

Wiring diagrams in the Haynes are a little vague - "early" and "late" but that doesn't help as I don't know the age or VIN of the donor car for the engine and box (ebay special - ex-Plod Estate, apparently).  All I can tell is that its got the early inlet manifold and the later cam pulleys (bought an early cam kit....), and a Motronic ECU.  Battery wasn't in the rudest of health, so thats back on charge.

Any pointers, chaps?

[Kevin Wood]

So it has the RF transponder type of immobiliser normally fitted by the lock barrel?

What wires (and colours) in total do you have from the immobiliser?

You shouldn't need the alarm ECU but the immobiliser needs more than just a connection to the ECU IIRC.

[philhoward]

Yep - barrel mounted transponder (but not the OE Barrel; key currently taped to the transponder).

1 Brown/Red (from Alarm unit?) - Not Connected
2 Brown/Blue - Dash warning lamp (H30 - with ECU fault lamp)
3 N/C
4 Brown - Earth
5 Black - Ignition
6 Blue/Red N/C
7 Blue/Red - to ECU (wire still in one piece as taken from car loom)
8 Brown/White - to Diagnostic Connector (Currently N/C)
9 Red - Battery Live

[I_want_an_Omega]

A pal of mine has put V6s into a number of other cars. He gets around this problem by shortening the cables from the ECU to the immobiliser ECU/ring and putting it somewhere nice where it can be physically secured. Then he removes the immobiliser chip from the key and tapes it to the loop on the immobiliser ECU.

By doing that it excludes the actual ignition key from the immobiliser process.

Its important that the key chip/immobiliser ECU/Engine ECU are all a known good working set.

HTH

[philhoward]

The key I have is a non-remote one so chip removal probably tricky (ex-plod).  I assume the key location in the ring isn't that critical then?

[I_want_an_Omega]

The key I have is a non-remote one so chip removal probably tricky (ex-plod).  I assume the key location in the ring isn't that critical then?

If you think about it - the ring sits around the key - so the chip inside the key will be no more than an inch or so from the ring. The key will prise apart and the chip is held in place with a small dab of glue and should come out easily enough. You can then tape the chip (or even the whole key) to the ring. You can then use any key you like for the ignition switch/starter.

Hope this all makes sense.

[philhoward]

Well, aside from a little bit of play I managed to get a grand total of nowhere - partly work related so my time at home is currently very limited.

I thought i'd have another go with a known set of ECU, transponder and chip so trot off to ebay and only find a couple of "sets" on there and the ECU looks to be different.  Mine is a "HJ" unit yet the ones on ebay are "AF" - whats the difference, and can I use an AF one where my HJ currently lives?  Tried a google and didn't get very far...

[philhoward]

OK, hand up time - reason for no immobiliser signal was no earth to the immobiliser unit

With that fixed, I get a solid light to the ECU lamp but the bugger still won't start

Run a quick paperclip test and showed 31 and 144 - 31 sort of is normal for a V6 (correct?) and 144 is a legacy code from the immobiliser issue I think.

Fuel pump - should it have a priming pulse when you turn the ignition on, or does it wait for a signal from the crank sensor to fire it?  Trying to work 3 handed, I didn't see many volts on the wire to the pump (pump works if shoved straight onto a battery live).  Have swapped relays but not managed to get any further.  How susceptible to low battery voltage (I'm currently trying to run it off a set of jump leads) are these?  When cranking, the ignition light is dimming and the ECU light goes out (or very dim) - something tells me this isn't quite right!

[I_want_an_Omega]

Surely it wouldnt hurt to force the fuel pump on would it? Any fuel not injected is only sent back to the tank anyway ......... It would help in the elimination process surely?

[philhoward]

Surely it wouldnt hurt to force the fuel pump on would it? Any fuel not injected is only sent back to the tank anyway ......... It would help in the elimination process surely?

I did a temporary priming before starting (running for about 10 seconds), the theory being that residual pressure would be enough to make it at least have a go before the pressure subsided?  A quick check of the lines showed fuel was present (and definitely under pressure!)

Is there no way of testing a crank sensor (aside from replacement)?

[Andy H]

Have you got the Omega tachometer connected? My recollection (from when I have had a failed cranksensor) is that the warning light stayed lit and the tacho needle didn't move.

When I changed the cranksensor the warning light went out immediately the engine started turning and the tacho needle moves off the stop (200 rpm ish ).(not sure what the cranking speed of a V6 is because it normally seems to fire immediately)

[philhoward]

Ah...I think the warning light stays lit when cranking....

Not got the Omega tach connected (although might do to prove) and the tacho i have got doesn't move...which does point to the CPS...

[philhoward]

Just checked - ECU stays lit when cranking...I assume thats not good...

[philhoward]

Just checked - ECU stays lit when cranking...I assume thats not good...

...and if so, will a cheap one (generic ebay) work for a while, or any online sellers who sell the genuine item anyone can point me towards?

[RobG]

Fuel pump - should it have a priming pulse when you turn the ignition on,

No

or does it wait for a signal from the crank sensor to fire it?

Yep