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[Dishevelled Den]

All very true,but on the face of it,its a bit difficult to marry up the coroners unlawful killing verdict,with the juries not guilty verdict.

This will show how my son;


The Coroners Act 1988 requires a coroner to hold an inquest where there is reasonable cause to suspect that the deceased died a violent or unnatural death, a sudden death of which the cause is unknown, or has died in prison. The purpose of an inquest is to establish who the deceased was, where and when the deceased died, and how the deceased came by his or her death.


www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN03981.pdf

Thus, an in inquest is not a trial held to adduce the guilt or innocence of any person suspected to have been responsible for, or involved in, the demise of the deceased.

[mantahatch]

All very true,but on the face of it,its a bit difficult to marry up the coroners unlawful killing verdict,with the juries not guilty verdict.

Nope ..

The coroner said he was unlawfully killed ... one man's opinion although based on the law.

The jury decided they were not sure that the PC was directly responsible for the death .. 12 peoples opinion of the evidence placed before them.

Different courts, different evidence, and in the trial barristers arguing their points, cross examining witnesses etc etc ..

which I don't believe occurs in the Coroners Court ... as I've never been to one of them ..

When I did jury duty it was more like 11 people forming an opinion of the accused based purely on what they look liked like and how they behaved in court. And in one jurors opinion, " he looks very sorry for himself, I think we should let him off "

As for any evidence from either side it was complely dismissed or not heard by the jury.

In my 2 weeks of it I did 2 cases, one lasted one day and one lasted all of 1 minute, 12 of us where wheeled in to a court room and the bloke nearest the judge was asked to stand. The judge then told the man to say not guilty, the man repeated not guilty and we where wheeled out again. Everday I had to turn up and for what appeared to me to be a complete farce.

This is just my own experience of it and I am sure others have done there duty properly.

[BigAl]

well said nige,ive always said that a policeman can have a good career and it takes one accident or occurance and the media strike and taint his existence.as h21 said people have only seen the hyped videos on youtube and the media edited footage and as you have said its down to the courts and jury 

read the reports about this 'officers' career highlights

[hercules]

well said nige,ive always said that a policeman can have a good career and it takes one accident or occurance and the media strike and taint his existence.as h21 said people have only seen the hyped videos on youtube and the media edited footage and as you have said its down to the courts and jury 

read the reports about this 'officers' career highlights

yeh i know that about this officer but i wrote policeman meaning in general policeman or (should also have woman)

[Entwood]

well said nige,ive always said that a policeman can have a good career and it takes one accident or occurance and the media strike and taint his existence.as h21 said people have only seen the hyped videos on youtube and the media edited footage and as you have said its down to the courts and jury 

read the reports about this 'officers' career highlights

I agree an appalling record .. but remember .. that record would NOT have been put before the jury, as from an evidence viewpoint it had nothing to do with what happened on the day.

I am as surprised as anyone else that he was found not guilty, but my whole point is .. we do not know why ... I'm lead to believe his defence was that IN HIS MIND, AT THE TIME, HE ONLY USED REASONABLE FORCE......   if he was able to convince the jury of the truth of that ... ....

[hotel21]

All very true,but on the face of it,its a bit difficult to marry up the coroners unlawful killing verdict,with the juries not guilty verdict.

The verdict in a coroners court is different, numbers wise, from a crown court as I understand it and there is a distinct difference in legal application - but there again, I have no knowledge of the English system, particularly as there is no such animal as a coroners court in Scotland!

[razzo]

I find it hard to believe he was retired from the Met on medical grounds & some years later returned to Met as a serving officer

bit long winded but not the most glittering of careers

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/pc-simon-harwood--10-complaints-in-12-years-for-the-red-mist-officer-7959576.html

[Martian]

It's not the first time that someone has died after an interaction with plod, and I doubt it will be the last.

A friend of ours died in custody at Hounslow police station in 1986 after being hit on the head with a truncheon and placed in a "choke hold" for good measure. He was then left lying unconscious on the custody room floor for over an hour before they decided to take him to hospital, but by then it was way too late.

The DPP also didn't help matters by saying that there would be no prosecution regardless of the outcome of any subsequent inquest and investigation.

Until plod learns to punish the ones that are doing wrong instead of sweeping it under the carpet they will never have any respect from the public.

[tigers_gonads]

This is not a swipe at the police in general.
If we are all honest, we all know that they have a sh*t job to do which is made harder by so called human rights lawyers and do gooders but read this link below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Christopher_Alder

I have been led to belive that 2 of these tossers was re employed by humberside police after they had left the force.

Imho, the police have very little respect nowdays from the public because they point blank refuse too sort out there own problems.

[Rods2]

I think there are two areas that do need to be addressed:

1. A serving police officer who is subject to internal disciplinary proceedings, can have these terminated, by resigning from the police force. These should continue even if he resigns and his police record should contain the results of the disciplinary hearing.

2. More careful vetting if an officer has been previously a police officer of why he previously left the force and any other disciplinary proceedings.

This will help stop police officers who have a bad record being able to repeat the same failings, which will also help improve how the police are perceived by the public. Sadly, in all organisations the 1% who are bad tarnish the 99% who are good.

[Entwood]

It would appear that some of those points have already been addressed ..

Last 3 paragraphs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18851486

The whole article is worth a read, as if true, it is somewhat horrendous ... I know 20;20 hindsight is a wonderful thing .. but there were some pretty basic errors made there IMHO ..

[bigboykarl]

cps oppsup i'd say ..brought the wrong charges maybe..was always going to be hard to prove that shove brought on the heart attack......
 similar case in leeds and in no way do i condone the behaviour of the boxer...but it is stated that the victim would most likely have survived if they hadn't hooked him up to a faulty ventillator starving his brain of oxygen and blood....maybe if the boxer had been a copper he's have been aquitted   
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176545/Pro-boxer-Clifton-Ty-Mitchell-jailed-seven-years-killing-Leeds-student-single-punch.html

[Kevin Wood]

cps oppsup i'd say ..brought the wrong charges maybe..was always going to be hard to prove that shove brought on the heart attack......

Yes, they perhaps should have gone for a lesser charge. It was clearly not an obvious sequence of events that a shove resulted in death, but, I guess, had there been a lesser charge brought there might have been some recognition by the jury that he was being unnecessarily heavy-handed.

Let's just hope his Police career is finally over, at least. 

[Dishevelled Den]

cps oppsup i'd say ..brought the wrong charges maybe..was always going to be hard to prove that shove brought on the heart attack......

Yes, they perhaps should have gone for a lesser charge. It was clearly not an obvious sequence of events that a shove resulted in death, but, I guess, had there been a lesser charge brought there might have been some recognition by the jury that he was being unnecessarily heavy-handed.

Let's just hope his Police career is finally over, at least.

Aah, it seems that Mr W, in developing BBK's theme, has been the only contributor up to the moment to highlight something not immediately obvious to the baying masses and that is of course ------- well, if that one can't be worked out, there’s little hope for the chattering classes and those august organs commonly referred to as the main stream media.