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[Shackeng]

Technology makes people lazy imo.
Whether its flying a aeroplane or driving a car, you soon loose the basic skills if you don't exercise them regularly 

Going back to that Air France airbus over the Southern Atlantic a few years ago.
You can dress it up as much as you want but you never pull when you get a stall warning

Generally but not always true, as the Nimrod air display crew, as I recall, we could only get the display in properly with the stick shakers coming in and out, and with some elevator up input (as well as lots of aileron), to rack it round in tight enough turns.

[tigers_gonads]

Technology makes people lazy imo.
Whether its flying a aeroplane or driving a car, you soon loose the basic skills if you don't exercise them regularly 

Going back to that Air France airbus over the Southern Atlantic a few years ago.
You can dress it up as much as you want but you never pull when you get a stall warning

Generally but not always true, as the Nimrod air display crew, as I recall, we could only get the display in properly with the stick shakers coming in and out, and with some elevator up input (as well as lots of aileron), to rack it round in tight enough turns.

Didn't know you was a jocky on the mighty hunter Shack 

Suppose with 4 Spey's pushing you along and a low fuel load, you could afford to be a little daring with the controls 

[Shackeng]

F/E not pilot.

[tigers_gonads]

F/E not pilot.

Lucky bugger 
All those meat pies in the galley 

[Shackeng]

Not many arrived up front!

[Kevin Wood]

I was once speaking to a training captain who worked for a while in asia. He got the push in the end because his "face didn't fit" but hitched a ride home in the jump seat of a 747 with his successor in the left hand seat. A flight during which he witnessed a huge discrepancy build up between the actual position of the aircraft what the pilots believed to be the position of the aircraft. Despite obvious signs, nobody piped up and he watched the situation develop until he had to administer a tap on the shoulder and point out that their current course would fly them into a mountain.

He said the same thing. Later the 1st officer admitted he knew they were lost but remained silent. Refusal to question authority and fear of losing face. I've seen it mess things up at work too, thankfully where the stakes aren't quite so high.

[05omegav6]

That's an age old problem Kevin

Two burnt out jumbos in Tenerife, a Trident in a field just west of Heathrow, and inevitably countless other incidents all pay testament to it

The flight deck seem to be about the only place where it is acceptable for someone capable to keep schtum while the person sitting next to you murders you

[tigers_gonads]

I was once speaking to a training captain who worked for a while in asia. He got the push in the end because his "face didn't fit" but hitched a ride home in the jump seat of a 747 with his successor in the left hand seat. A flight during which he witnessed a huge discrepancy build up between the actual position of the aircraft what the pilots believed to be the position of the aircraft. Despite obvious signs, nobody piped up and he watched the situation develop until he had to administer a tap on the shoulder and point out that their current course would fly them into a mountain.

He said the same thing. Later the 1st officer admitted he knew they were lost but remained silent. Refusal to question authority and fear of losing face. I've seen it mess things up at work too, thankfully where the stakes aren't quite so high.

Had a similar experience flying out of Goose Bay in the back of a Tristar during 89
Aircrew at the front / me and the rest of the daft lads behind.
Belting down the runway as normal.
Everybody having a laugh and watching the scenery going by............... next thing we know, the aircrew at the front go deathly silent, the boss jumps out of his seat and moves towards the cockpit.
Seconds later, the planes engines are flat out and its standing on one wingtip  and believe me, the mountains where bloody close 

The rest of the flight to Wildenrath (sp)  was very quite until we got back to Europe when it took the muppet in the front 4 attempts to land the thing.

I was later told by one of the jockeys that our boss Al Threadgold (some might know him) had to be picked up and dragged away from the pilot after we stopped.
Turns out that the bloke flying was a French exchange pilot.
 

[Shackeng]

That's an age old problem Kevin

Two burnt out jumbos in Tenerife, a Trident in a field just west of Heathrow, and inevitably countless other incidents all pay testament to it

The flight deck seem to be about the only place where it is acceptable for someone capable to keep schtum while the person sitting next to you murders you

But, and I can say this with some confidence as a retired F/E Instructor, this was definitely not the case with BA in my time. Indeed it was a major part of the training to ensure that all crew were aware of this requirement. In the same vein, BA trained the RAF Tristar crews, and it was noticeable, even to me as ex-RAF, how they still operated the same old system, the senior officer is in charge, and what he says is correct. It was hard work trying to convince them that the only way to operate the 1011 safely, was as a 3 crew operation.