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[Marks DTM Calib]

It realy is the parents, being a helper at the local scout group you see it a lot.

Horrible kids who when you speak to the parents about behaviour have a go at you, the wife (who used to work in nurseries and now works in a school) also confirms this to.

I personaly try to teach my children right from wrong and spend time with them doing activitied and getting out of the house and it already shows.

[Jay w]

We seem to be quite lucky currently where we live, that said you can still see a decline in the attitude of the youth today

My stepson is one who i would happily beat some sense of respect into, not only respect for property but also to other human beings irrespective of race, sex and beliefs.
He was brought up by his father who is a lazy, self opinonated bigot, we are now having to undo all of this and try and teach him that that the way forward is not sponging off the state and parents but getting a job, joining society and putting something back into it.
Currently he resides in a room with a bed........everything else has been removed until he learns that if he doesnt buck his ideas up he will be living in a prison cell, he has little concept of right/wrong.

and then he has the gall to ask for a car for his 18th birthday present........i told him to go away in short sharp jerky movements.....

do we have to get to the point where we live in gated communities and have security patrols to support the poilce? I don't always agree with arming police as there is a risk it could escalate the current situation, but i do believe that stronger action should be taken to protect the honest, law abiding joe public as a start i would revoke a lot of these human rights laws that seem to protect the guilty and harm the victims, if you have commited a serious crime then you forefit the rights as a human being ans so should only have nominal rights that protect you as someone who has commited a serious crime against another person/persons.

Personally i think the police to an excellent job, sometimes in the face of adversity and hostility, the question you have to ask is do they have the support in the law that they require?

rant over.....i'll get off me soapbox now

[x25xe]

Totally agree with you there Mark - being a Cub and Beaver leader I know exactly what you are referring to.  Good manners, disincline and behaviour all start in the home in my opinion.

There are some shocking examples of extremely bad parenting.  I was parking the car the other day when a woman was walking along the street FFing and blinding to the two poor children following her.  Her remarks to them went something like this "you lot f**k me right off.  Winging and F****g whining all day" and so it went on.  Children had their arms round each other for comfort which tells you all you need to know.

I am sorry, but I do not feel that it is the schools or teachers fault.  They are there to educate in the academic sense not to teach children manners, how to eat correctly etc.  I am also a school governor of two primary schools so I understand the pressures that schools are under.  Most of the "lack of discipline / control" is due to the fact that parents are a different bread to say 10 years ago.  In those days, if a child was told off about something, the parents would be supportive of the school.  Now the reverse is true - the parents go against the school.  There is also the suing issue as well of course.

Regarding crime and general law and order, it is about time that the police were supported by the magistrates.  I have been watching the Traffic Cops series and the punishments handed out are totally ridiculous.  100 hours community service - what is that all about?  Sitting about all day drinking and smoking I should think.  Send them to jail and make jail tough.  No letting out early either.  If our existing jails are full, then build more.

I could go on, but have probably said enough already.

[Golfbuddy]

Totally agree with you there Mark - being a Cub and Beaver leader I know exactly what you are referring to.  Good manners, disincline and behaviour all start in the home in my opinion.

There are some shocking examples of extremely bad parenting.  I was parking the car the other day when a woman was walking along the street FFing and blinding to the two poor children following her.  Her remarks to them went something like this "you lot f**k me right off.  Winging and F****g whining all day" and so it went on.  Children had their arms round each other for comfort which tells you all you need to know.

I am sorry, but I do not feel that it is the schools or teachers fault.  They are there to educate in the academic sense not to teach children manners, how to eat correctly etc.  I am also a school governor of two primary schools so I understand the pressures that schools are under.  Most of the "lack of discipline / control" is due to the fact that parents are a different bread to say 10 years ago.  In those days, if a child was told off about something, the parents would be supportive of the school.  Now the reverse is true - the parents go against the school.  There is also the suing issue as well of course.

Regarding crime and general law and order, it is about time that the police were supported by the magistrates.  I have been watching the Traffic Cops series and the punishments handed out are totally ridiculous.  100 hours community service - what is that all about?  Sitting about all day drinking and smoking I should think.  Send them to jail and make jail tough.  No letting out early either.  If our existing jails are full, then build more.

I could go on, but have probably said enough already.

I promise that I'm not having a go at you x25xe.

There is nothing that thethe teachers can do now as it is too late. When I was at school in the 70's it was obvious that standards were slipping. The sanctions open to the teachers were getting less and less and behaviour got worse. When I started school, children were smacked or caned if they misbehaved (from the age of four), by the time I left, the worst that could happen would be a detention (community service light). Who campaigned for the aboliltion of corporal punishment in schools? And who is campaigning for the same abolition where parents and children are concerned. I am not condoning child abuse; my daughter gets a smack maybe once a year or less but she knows that there are consequences for bad behaviour.

The magistrates are bound by the law and the punishments that they hand down are strictly controlled, they cannot support the police any more that the law allows. The essence of the lay magistracy is that the justices are not legally qualified, they do now however receive some training from the Judicial Studies Board. Questions of law are decided for them by their clerk, who is qualified, usually a barrister or solicitor who has to follow the sentencing guidelines laid down for the magistracy. This is the major reason why the punishment rarely appears to fit the crime. It is up to the government of the day to pass good legislation that has the robustness to ensure that crime is punished in a robust and proportionate manner.

As I said, not having a go at anyone but it is the fault of the establishment in this country that standards are at an all time low. The parents who have no control of their children are, in my opinion, a product of that establishment.

Rant over, but I reserve the right to climb back on if I get the urge.

[DaveL]

Been on the legal system up here in Scotland, the right side of the law I must add, the times I had to deal with a yob who did not see that his/her actions was wrong. A lot of the time it was the parents that needed a short sharp jab but most if not all had been through the system and knew that there was very little that you could do to them.

After 8 years of this postering to the do gooders I gave the post up much wiser and feel sorry for all the Police who try to give some order to the chaos.

[bob.dent]

I think the Sex Pistols got it right back in the 80's.............Anarchy in the UK!! That's exactly what we have now.

[Danny]

Words fail me with what's happened this evening back home

11 year old shot dead playing football

I lived around there about 10 years ago too.  The poor parents must be devastated. Surely something has to be done after this - it's gone way way too far.

if caught and sent down, killer will be on the streets again in 10-12 years, and the family have to live the rest of their life without their son

no WAY will i have kids brought up in this life when the laws are so pathetic

[Tafty]

Words fail me with what's happened this evening back home

11 year old shot dead playing football

I lived around there about 10 years ago too.  The poor parents must be devastated. Surely something has to be done after this - it's gone way way too far.

if caught and sent down, killer will be on the streets again in 10-12 years, and the family have to live the rest of their life without their son

no WAY will i have kids brought up in this life when the laws are so pathetic

And you can bet that it'll end up like the scum who killed Jamie Bulger - new identities, fresh clean start for them ..... Bless...... not

[Danny]

off topic but on subject on tonights news, a jehovas witness who abused kids over a 14 YEAR period, and one was a baby of just 18 months old, has escaped a sentence, all he has is a 3 year community order and therapy

i'm embarassed to be british

[sir moanalot]

nothing is ever going to get sorted out in this cesspit of a country unless an mp's house gets burgled or one of them gets mugged or attacked. while our judges have high security houses and protection they are "blind" to all crimes/problems.

i live in a relatively "safe" town but still am wary about certain areas to go through at certain times.

gangs and anti social behavior is rife and teenagers do as they wish cos- a) they are a hindrance to their parents and are left to their own devices  b) the blooming human rights act protects the wrongdoers and craps on the victims c) there are people out there that say educate these hoodlums to behave better, with rewards?!? etc and d) the police are scared to go near them for fear of being accused of assault in any form.

i don't blame anyone for wanting to leave this country, the government constantly fail us and
we as a country are taxed to death.  mmmmmm.. Australia?...........when i leave please ask the chavs, immigrants, drug dealers, dogooders and spongers to shut the gate..........

[Tony H]

This is a subject that I could post three pages on. I agree compleatly with broocies thoughts. One of the main reasons that we have the present problems of youth disorder and crime is there lack of respect for the police,authority,elders and peers. this is reinforced by the lack of community spirit and pride. Some people adopt the attitude that if it's not affecting them then turn a blind eye to it.
I may sound old but when I was a teenager and did something wrong word soon got back to my parents via the community grapevine and a you may guess I was in trouble when they found out.
Some parents now just dont know or dont care what there kids are dong and until this out of site out of mind attitude is addressed and parents are held responsible for there children the present situation is only going to get worse.

[amigov6]

That sicko's own sister called him a monster and i ca'nt better describe him on here. He managed to keep his liberty because he attended some sort of course??? Can all the therapy in the world stop a normal bloke looking at a pretty girl? Of course not, so how can any treatment change these deviants depraved cravings. The pc brigade tell us they ca'nt help their desires and maybe not but they should simply be locked up for thier natural life. I'd pay more tax to finance more prisons so no child would ever be at risk again.
      As for that poor 11yr old, i simply do'nt understand. When we were that age we gave eachother a nosebleed, fat lip, maybe a black eye if you got a lucky one in and we laughed about it afterwards.
   Guns, knives, ca'nt any of these kids have a bit of a scuffle anymore like we used to?
      In the early 80's i pinched a few cars and got a 6month to 2 year borstal(known as a 6-2) I deserved it and behaved myself thereafter. So how can someone walk free from interfering with an 18 month old baby? If that poor lads killers are caught and sent down it'll only be 5 or 6 years, again give them natural life. Sorry, i'll shut up now.